Map making Queries - "Blender" queries, etc.

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Map making Queries - "Blender" queries, etc.

Postby Barry » Sun 30 Nov 2003 - 17:49

Thought I would start a new thread to perhaps enable queries to be gathered together.

Regarding "Blender" on save or save as, it creates a new file blend1, when already have a blend file created, even when I overwrote blend (without the 1). On future save or save as no longer certain which file it is saving to. Ended up saving twice each time.

Can finer detailed work be done on a general map. Set the resolution to 25 metres which gave me about a 20 mile map, 25 metre which was a bit wide for canals and probably 5 or 10 better. But this then resets the wole map not a small part?

Perhaps others could add to this thread with their queries, etc.

Barry
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Postby Barry » Mon 01 Dec 2003 - 21:59

Made a floating narrowboat as seen on UKcanals. Screen shot on my site.
Anyway was going to make the cockpit open with portholes and tried the Boolean function in Blender to make a space. Have used the same in gmax. Thought I would texture first as easier but found out after the Boolean, wiped out the textures? For now cockpit solid and will try texture after Boolean on the next.

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Postby Remco Moedt » Tue 02 Dec 2003 - 00:41

I must say, those screenshots are looking great!

Cheers!

Remco
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Postby Barry » Tue 02 Dec 2003 - 01:10

Thanks Remco

Hope we can get more then one drivable/sailable boat in the scene eventully on one computer, as with online, to bring the scene to life a bit.

Barry
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Creating scenery

Postby wdornsife » Tue 24 Aug 2004 - 17:44

Great job on your scenery and thanks for all the hard work. Have a couple of questions. How can you convert and load an s3d file into blender and /or 3d max to modify it or create a muliple object scene like a clump of houses or trees? Is there a easier way to modify objects in an s3d file?
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Re: Creating scenery

Postby Barry » Tue 24 Aug 2004 - 20:10

wdornsife wrote:Great job on your scenery and thanks for all the hard work. Have a couple of questions. How can you convert and load an s3d file into blender and /or 3d max to modify it or create a muliple object scene like a clump of houses or trees? Is there a easier way to modify objects in an s3d file?


Hello I posted a private message reply in reply to yours.
To add a bit more after making the blend file with Blender and saving as vrml2 then convert to s3d or buoy file.

To make groups of items like the small town I made you just need to make one item then duplicate it. Dulicate the 2 making 4 and so on.You can also rotate them to put some facing different ways. You can also move them to any position then just keep drawing a box around them and duplicate until you get the number required. Only needs a few clicks of the mouse.

You just then join them together as one model.
Can't be done for trees etc until we see if the alpha texture works with Blender with 1.2 ver. due out end of August?
If it works to make a clump of trees would be the same. You could make a forest with just a picture of forest in background, etc using the alpha texure, etc. or as many trees, bushes or whatever by multiplying them up.

Barry

:)
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Global Mapper et al

Postby BillC21 » Tue 05 Sep 2006 - 16:05

Barry just a few items\. Thankj you for reminding me that to import files we use VT Builder. The reslultant file is the a VT file which the DEM Builder recogniizes. I am going to leave out the Paint Shop Pro 8 Barry because we can practically do the same thing with 3DEM. With that in mind got a great download from Global Mapper and the file is TAR.GZ which the 3DEM imports ok. In 3DEM i am converting to grey Scale ( in US they call it Gray scale). I have a problem read the help and got the Terrain windows showing the different colors and set the min to blaclk and max to White. Perhaps you can help I cannot change the color levels in between is there know switch routine to automatically set up the intervening grey shades. I notice to Barry that in 3DEM you can save image as a BMP so that would great for VT Builder. Any advice Barry on the Grey SCale ? Bill C
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Postby Barry » Tue 05 Sep 2006 - 18:52

Hello Bill I posted the details to your other post on the other thread.
The bitmap it saves is 24 bit and OK for background.

See seperate "Save map image" and there is a choice of 9 with bmp top left.
But again I don't know any other details except I used the bmp which is an identical copy of the colour terrain, to the correct size, as a background to help so me when the rivers where placed onto the greyscale in the Stentec dem editor.

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Greyscale etc

Postby BillC21 » Tue 05 Sep 2006 - 22:00

Barry thanks for hanging there mate but we will get it going. Fumbling making things worse and not working that;s the fun of it Barry. WEll I managed to find out how to handle gre scales and produce them. First I wont explain all because you have to do Barry is go to the 3DEM Help and go to' TerrainColors Dialog Box. Go to Terrain Colors Paragraph and Halfway down they explain how to diffuse the colrs whether they be RGB or greyscale. Read To spread colors they mean to diffuse the colors between top and bottom of the scale ( 14 levels) whether we are working with colors or greyscale. Lets choose grey Scale . Go to 'Color Scale-Scale -Shaded relif set 'Shade Depth' to 'zero'' . This is to remove all shadows.Next go to "Color Scale-Modify Scale " . Terrain Clors window pops up first at bottom click on island/Ocean then click on the lowest level and set RGB Sliders to zeroes. blob will turn black do same to top level but set the RGB sliders to 256 . Top blob goes all white. Go back to lowest level and click on then cliclk on SPREAD grayscale from black to white is diffused automatically. THat's all for this email Barry try it yourself. Not sure how we can geh back to our old post . If I remwember reading it Barry in VT Build this program will accept imports from BMP formats and 3DEM allows you to save your file in BMP . Now perhaps you have another format you prefer but this is what was said in the Stentec VT build. Pleassed I got that 3DEM greyscale sorted out. It looks as though I will not be using the Paintshop Pro program regards . WE should make sure this link is privatized Barry?Bill C
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Re: Greyscale etc

Postby Barry » Tue 05 Sep 2006 - 22:49

BillC21 wrote:Barry thanks for hanging there mate but we will get it going. Fumbling making things worse and not working that;s the fun of it Barry. WEll I managed to find out how to handle gre scales and produce them. First I wont explain all because you have to do Barry is go to the 3DEM Help and go to' TerrainColors Dialog Box. Go to Terrain Colors Paragraph and Halfway down they explain how to diffuse the colrs whether they be RGB or greyscale. Read To spread colors they mean to diffuse the colors between top and bottom of the scale ( 14 levels) whether we are working with colors or greyscale. Lets choose grey Scale . Go to 'Color Scale-Scale -Shaded relif set 'Shade Depth' to 'zero'' . This is to remove all shadows.Next go to "Color Scale-Modify Scale " . Terrain Clors window pops up first at bottom click on island/Ocean then click on the lowest level and set RGB Sliders to zeroes. blob will turn black do same to top level but set the RGB sliders to 256 . Top blob goes all white. Go back to lowest level and click on then cliclk on SPREAD grayscale from black to white is diffused automatically. THat's all for this email Barry try it yourself. Not sure how we can geh back to our old post . If I remwember reading it Barry in VT Build this program will accept imports from BMP formats and 3DEM allows you to save your file in BMP . Now perhaps you have another format you prefer but this is what was said in the Stentec VT build. Pleassed I got that 3DEM greyscale sorted out. It looks as though I will not be using the Paintshop Pro program regards . WE should make sure this link is privatized Barry?Bill C


Bill I posted on the other thread.
Be interesting to see if you get your method to work but the method I use does not involve any of the steps you are using.

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Postby Barry » Tue 05 Sep 2006 - 23:38

Bill I tried what you said and see how we can change the map to black and white grey scale but for what purpose?

We get the same result when you export straight from 3dem as
usgs ascII dem without doing anything - import into vtbuilder and export as .bt into Stentec dem editor.

Terrain is all ready in greyscale, lay some depths then ready to generate in scenery designer.

That is what happens with the hgt files.
Probably the same with the tar.gz?


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3DEM and VT builder

Postby BillC21 » Wed 06 Sep 2006 - 02:55

Barry I will not be so long winded but to the nitties your point is well taken why do we have to have greyscale, Well if you read ther stentec help the imported file into DEM builder has to be Greyscale and that means its 8 bits. I would suggest you leave the Global Mapper files alone which are in TAR.GZ. You will notice when you open 3DEM that it is one of the formats it accepts. Works ok. Also I just demonstrated how to get the Grey Scale diffusion. I will just leave the map with just the color as is and put into the VT builder see what happens. You might be right VT Builder might do a lot of the work for us. Now suppose we get the formatted file 'bt' and import it into DEM builder. I am a little hung up there . Barry do we need to draw contours over the map. Personally I dont think so . You will notice that the imported file is actually laying on top of the PINK SQUARE so it's assuming all the color mixing has been done. Suggest we extrapolate there and then see what happens. I am getting closer but will do the exercise without the grey Scale procedure. Bill C
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A Quickie

Postby BillC21 » Wed 06 Sep 2006 - 02:57

Barry how do you lay depths in DEM Builder now that you have imported the bt file. Bill C
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Re: A Quickie

Postby Barry » Wed 06 Sep 2006 - 13:38

BillC21 wrote:Barry how do you lay depths in DEM Builder now that you have imported the bt file. Bill C




Bill thinking a bit more about your method.
Bitmap doesn't import into vtbuilder,at least I don't think so, and you would import it directly into dem builder.
That is at 256 or greyscale.
So converted all of of Wales to greyscale by your method in 3dem, and exported bitmap.
3DEM does not export 256 format. so changed it with windows paint to 256.


imported into dem editor.
The problem is then you have to set the max and mininum depth, also the co-ordinates. So redid it and reset the depth to zero and 1052 metres which were the figures in 3dem with sea height 0. But again how do we set the co-ordinates, these are the mid cenetre for the non satellite files I made and used to draw a cross across the map to get the position.
Also you would need to calculate the spacing.

To clear the sea set it at 0 nodata which then put a lot of Wales under water as well, so at present...not for me, but would be interested if you finalise it with full details without using vtbuilder...as long as you don't have to calculate co-ordinates, spacing, and map size, etc.

But must add the method Jeroen detailed is straightforward, nothing to set up, and all automatic except adding 2048 in a box and one other figure and the greyscale is made.

Also when first loading the file hgt or your file type tar.gz or whatever you downloaded, into 3dem, check that it is in UTM projection, and not ellipsoid, or you scenery will be distorted.

I had made all the Canary Islands a while ago and hadn't changed the projection, and it appeared squashed because I hadn't changed the projection.
Also the method I describe is after changing to UTM projection and ONLY exporting as USGS ASCII DEM for vtbuilder

What I meant with why do we need the greyscale you are making was that it's already made as I explained .
The .bt file exported from vtbuilder is greyscale black to white when imported into dem editor, also the co-ordinates are already in and you only have to enter 2048 in the box and the fraction as I detailed. You need do nothing else.

Although this image is what I made from laying contours before using satellite data and is ready to generate in scenery designer this is also how the image appears using satelite data and after exporting as the .bt file. into dem editr, except the sea would be pink to work on after making it 0 no data.



However if it cuts out the use of vtbuilder it would be interesting.
and would give us an alternative method of making sceneries and adds to the knowledge base.

I have detailed the scenery builder tutorial on my site but have extaracted the relevant section below.

Also if using the pencil for spot height click twice on the spot or it uses the heigh before.
******

---------------------------------
Exract from my tuturial
----------------------------------------
The rest is just laying a thread like a piece of cotton.
Either along the contours, or wherever you wish.
There are just two main buttons you will be using.
The line symbol, and the pencil tip at the left hand side.
Click the line symbol, bottom left.
If using a map go around the part were the sea joins the land and make it perhaps 0.
Trace along it, clicking the left mouse as you go.
Just like laying a piece of cotton along a winding track.
To set the height for each contour line.
Top right height. Already at 0.
You could set it to 1 or maybe 4. Cliffs say at 20.
So all the land on wherever you place this thread will be at the height you have chosen, in meters above a sea level of 0. (You can alter the sea level).
When you have finished with this height click apply.
Don't forget to click apply for each SEPERATE height as you finish it.

Just trace around your contours the same way.
Setting the heights in metres for each, 10, 20, 50, 100, 1000 metres or whatever you are choosing.
Click apply for each SEPERATE ONE.
The sea depths are done exactly the same, but put a minus - before the depth in metres.
One important point. The land will slope up or down from each line you enter.
So pretend we made the edge of all the land next to the sea at 4 metres.
Place the first sea depth line very close the the coast line say at minus -3 metres, otherwise you could have a sheet of land stretching out into what should be sea. The same applies especially to rivers and canals. Seal them in all round with a height, very close to the rivers, etc.
Also go around the edges of you maps.
Some of the map may get clipped by the grid, so also fill it parts away from the edge, otherwise it will turn into sea. The dem. land slopes down to the sea, and the blank default dem. is sea at many metres deep.
Last edited by Barry on Fri 12 Jan 2007 - 22:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Finalising

Postby BillC21 » Thu 07 Sep 2006 - 03:01

Sorry late on parade was working on my ham radio tower fixing the antenna. But Barry what a lot of great information you have given in your message. I am going to study it closely. The map is first class Barry congratulations. So what you have done is use 3DEM to produce Greyscale table the way I mentioned and the color tones automatically diffuse correctly.Then you said that you used Windows paint to set the to 8 bits or a digital count of 256 that's great. Having done that you save it as bitmap or ext BMP and directly IMPORT it into DEM so that we don't have to go to the DEM via the VT builder. I will just pause a minute here then continue with the above approach .
If you take a breather Barry abd download Alex Sail Simulator Scenery Design Tutorial ( It's not very well written a little confusing but some interesting steps he made . Site is http://www.aletronix.com/sail_sin/tutorial.html. He goes this routeHe takes a Maritime Map 1:500000,WGS84 and UMTlong lat projection.He scans his map so he gets a file of the area on his system. . He works with 24 Bits color to see a clear map !! klater he said he will change to 8 bits and extension BMP or bitmap whiich is acceptable by DEM Builder. He uses then Paint Shop Pro to draw contour lines using a tranpasrent layer over the map file drawing. THen talks about Photoshop Color swatches. Dont understand that He uses pencil 1 pixel. He notes and I think I read it to that DEM builder will only ACCEPT BMP files only if the it is a scene projection. He then starts to hop from one thiing to another and most readers will be lost . Anyway what he is doing is putting the BMP file directly into DEMO build. Stentec has a list of acceptable files for DEM Builder[------BitMap (BMP) ,ASCII DEms(txt),Binary Terrain Files (bt) which you get using VT BUilder VistaPro DEMS (dem), Stentec files (std) in DEM BUilder if you imported your bitmap file and you are looking at the DEM Header information you should have Barry Title etc then size columns X rows equal sizes usually Projection: SCENE Ref Dat : WGS 1984 Now if you have pulled down a TAR . GZ file from global mapper then the left Rightbotton and top extents will be filled in no lat or long at this time If you change the spacing the extents change automatically. Note Stentec specifically states if you are using a bitmap file greyscale now Barry to me Greyscal they automatically change the bits to 8 and the number of levels to 256 . Click on import. Now you are loasding a file with greyscale 256 levels 8 bits. You will see since I have already got that far the photo on top the PINK square. At this point Barry since we got 256 levels and we need colors for each shade I presume start using level colorer or use a program qussant or whatever to copy the coor graduations . Now to do this we need to a colr for the Sea say zero and the colr for the max level. Your guess is as good mine but what I will do Barry is to go the same route as urself I did it before and use a Bitmap and not use the VT builder the simply we make it the easuier it will be for the user. Will study you inputs Barry some good info. I really get enthusiastic since once wee have go the scenne correct and the procedure it will be great to sail in that environment Regards Bill Cridland
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