Boat textures

General question for Sail Simulator (raising sails, pulling sheets, etc.)

Boat textures

Postby ajnasreddin » Tue 25 May 2004 - 12:57

Since the SS5 is coming out soon, how about letting us use gif textures (for the sails at least) so that we could have semitransparent sails or put windows in our sails?

By the way, why isn't there a place here to download and show off yacht styles? If anyone is interested, I've managed to get a deck and water line on the ACC. Send word if you'd like me to forward the zip file.

-AJ
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Postby Jeroen » Wed 26 May 2004 - 09:06

Hello ajnas.

For Sail Simulator 5 we are thinking about using more transparent texturing. But it probably will not be .gif files that will be used mainly because it doesn't support enough alpha values (only 1 bit which means alpha on and off). It will probably be .tga files (with a 8 bit - 256 alpha values) we will be using.

I've been thinking about some kind of download center that could be put up for sail simulator 5 containing 3D objects and boat styles but that is not certain yet.
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Boat Textures

Postby yachtie2k4 » Tue 08 Jun 2004 - 11:47

Hello Jeroen,
Why don't you use .dds files instead of .tga files? Virtual Skipper 2 & 3 use .dds files, but they can also use .tga files, if i remember .tga files are bigger, whereas .dds files are small which means you save on hard drive space.
I know how to use .dds files, all you need is a program called DXTbmp which can be found at http://www.mnwright.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm it is a very easy to use program once you have worked everything out. I think it does .tga files as well.
rob
Defenition of a Sportboat: small boat, max a coastal racer, too scary to step onboard first time (even to look around in it)- LoeV
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Postby Jeroen » Mon 21 Jun 2004 - 09:57

We are thinking about using the .dds file format for our textures like Nadeo does in their games (Virtual Skipper, Trackmania 8)).

The drawback of .dds is that it's a little more difficult for less experienced users. .TGA is a format that is widely available in programs like Paint Shop Pro and Photoshop.

I know about the existense of DXTbmp but it adds an extra step to the process which many less experienced users may find hard to get.

Anyway.... to solve both problems we'll probably be using both format for the next versions to keep everyone happy :).
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Postby yachtie2k4 » Mon 21 Jun 2004 - 10:43

Hi Jeroen,
Virtual Skipper 2 uses both formats, but .dds files take up less space so thats the reason why I mentioned it
Rob
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Postby Jeroen » Mon 21 Jun 2004 - 11:41

Another advantage of the .dds format is that it's a specific format designed by Microsoft for DirectX. So it enalbes fast loading and multiple levels of compression.

It's a perfect format for DirectX which we sure will be looking into.
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Postby yachtie2k4 » Sun 18 Jul 2004 - 13:22

Just make the boats better lookin, more realistic boats would be great, are you going to include a boat design program so that we can design our own boats?
and whatever you do, don't make the boats/skins on the Virtual Skipper boats, keep it the way it is because it is heaps easier to design our own.
Thanks
Rob
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Postby ajnasreddin » Sun 25 Jul 2004 - 12:44

I, too, would like to be able to do some boat designing, and the solution is, perhaps, not easy to solve one way or the other. My point about the opacity with the sails was to be able to style a yacht that would be more realistic. I doubt one would style a boat with a transparent hull. Maybe one kind a texture could be used for the hull and another for the sails? I agree that the sails in VSkipper are not the best (sort of one-sided aren't they?). I hope a better solution can be found.

A thought also occured to me that I would like to have textures for my decks as well. I'm rather partial to classical boats myself, and I would like to sit back on my virtual yacht that had some nice wood decking instead of just plain white or whatnot. Why not the mast and boom as well? :lol:

About designing my own boats, that would be great. How would I get it to interact realistically within the program?

-AJ
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Postby yachtie » Mon 26 Jul 2004 - 07:56

ajnasreddin wrote:I, too, would like to be able to do some boat designing, and the solution is, perhaps, not easy to solve one way or the other. My point about the opacity with the sails was to be able to style a yacht that would be more realistic. I doubt one would style a boat with a transparent hull. Maybe one kind a texture could be used for the hull and another for the sails? I agree that the sails in VSkipper are not the best (sort of one-sided aren't they?). I hope a better solution can be found.

A thought also occured to me that I would like to have textures for my decks as well. I'm rather partial to classical boats myself, and I would like to sit back on my virtual yacht that had some nice wood decking instead of just plain white or whatnot. Why not the mast and boom as well? :lol:

About designing my own boats, that would be great. How would I get it to interact realistically within the program?

-AJ


Hmm, all these things are easily done if you have basically things from Sail Sim and Virtual Skipper, have the sails from sail sim, where you can colour individual sides of the sail, and use an alpha channel to create the transparency, which is what a .dds file does. On VSK2, even if you have the hull that is meant to be transparent, obviously they have programed it so that it doesnt come out transparent.
The problem with the sails in VSK are that when you edit them, there is only one side. But the biggest problem with the sails in vsk are that there is no shape to them, where as with sail sim you can adjust the shape of them.
Whilst ajn said that he wants textures for the deck, I would rather just have all textures, allowing us to make our own textures for everything, and being able to texture the steering wheel & bulb. It would be awesome to be able to have carbon fibre textures as well.
just the rest of my 2 cents worth.
yachtie
 

Postby Jeroen » Fri 30 Jul 2004 - 16:03

The boats in Sail Simulator 5 will probably become fully textured. That means sails, masts, booms, decks, the works.

That way it will be easier for people to style a complete boat.

Don't worry about the sails... we will continue to map them the way we are doing now... so two sides instead of one (like Virtual Skipper).

I'm not sure yet about the alpha in the boats I'd like to incorporate it in the boat (windows, sails) but time will tell if it gets implemented.
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Postby ajnasreddin » Wed 04 Aug 2004 - 12:59

Another thing about the textures -

I've noticed that many of the hull textures seem to wrap around the bow of the boat and get smudged at the stern. This makes it quite daunting to write the boat's name near the bow or on the stern (other than the great distortion due to stretching and shrinking along the hull).

The stretching and shrinking can be compensated for by stretching and shrinking the words in the opposite way - but when things just get wrapped around, there is no hope.

Is there a way around this problem in the SS4? Will SS5 be the same?
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Postby Jeroen » Wed 04 Aug 2004 - 13:32

In Sail Simulator 4 its very hard to solve this problem... We used the wrong texture wrapping technique for the hull which, quite frankly, makes the front look hideous.

In the next sail simulator we will be using a different texture wrapping method for the hull which fixes this problem.
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Postby Guest » Thu 05 Aug 2004 - 10:23

And when will that be??
/Alex
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Postby Jeroen » Thu 05 Aug 2004 - 10:57

Well that's a question for the both of us....

Development of Sail Simulator 5 has not been planned yet.
Jeroen
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Postby Guest » Thu 05 Aug 2004 - 16:18

Aha................ :? What about your Timex deal then........They probably would like a date. Or should you maybe remove that news from the WEB page. (like the link to the forseen features/ambitions that has disappeared).
OK wouldn't be hard on you Jeroen. I smell a bit of frustration in you answers.
/Alex
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